My latest conversation with an unknown liberal

So I posted another anti-Obama link on Facebook the other day about how he decided to skip the traditional Memorial Day visit to Arlington National Cemetary saying "Yet another anti-America move by the non-American "president""

So somehow, someone I don't even know, sent me an email.... here's what it said and what has been replied so far:

He said on May 27 at 1:25pm



As anti-American as Reagan? Reagan skipped out four times, and Bush Sr. never once went to Arlington on Memorial Day, vacationing at Kennebunkport instead. Clinton and Bush Jr. went every year. Repost this if you're no longer hyperventilating :-) .
I said on May 27 at 2:14pm


What I said was "...another anti-America move..." Yes, I'm fully aware of who has and hasn't gone...just as I am fully aware that he did in fact go last year. My point isn't that all presidents before him went...my point isn't that they all should always go (even if I think they should)....my point is, its just another way he has slapped America in the face. He has taken America to so many places our forefathers NEVER intended. He is continuing to apologize for things that we ARE NOT and NEVER WILL BE sorry for... he has done everything he can (and still is) to completely change everything that has made this great country what it is--great! He lied to get in the Senate...he lied to become president. He's lied ever since. He misconstrues everything he can to try and convince already ignorant (to the facts) people to believe his way is the ONLY way (think the Healthcare bill that he and his cronies never read)
I get so sick and tired of him getting everything he wants practically handed to him on a silver platter ONLY because he has a Congress that believes government should run everything....when all the facts prove that everything the government touches, ALWAYS goes over budget, ALWAYS loses money and yet they still think its a good idea and we.continue to pay for their bad ideas.
Damn....I need to stop. My hands are getting cramped up typing this on my phone. I'd be more than happy to civilly debate and discuss anything like this you wish...but I will tell you now, I only debate proven facts...so I'm never wrong. ;-) .
He said on May 27 at 2:42pm


I'm glad then that you agree Reagan's absence was an anti-American slap in the face.


Now if by "proven facts" you mean "what I heard on Fox news", you're gonna have to work a little harder than that :-)
For example, "our forefathers NEVER intended". And you know their intent how? You have to admit this line of argument is purely subjective. Your opinion is not "proven fact".
Apologies? Really? Have you seen the text of those statements? Pretty frikken bland. Never once said "I'm sorry".
"he has done everything he can..." Opinion again. You really think his plan is to un-great America? Really-really?
"He lied ... He's lied ever since... He misconstrues ..." Ummm ... he's a politician. This shocks and surprises you? Like all politicians (left, right, center, then, now and future), his job is to sell himself and his policies in the best possible light. This is the direct result of democracy. Take it or leave it. But don't hyperventilate over it.
"I get so sick and tired". Only because you disagree.
"Congress that believes government should run everything". Not really, and you know it.
I am one who enjoys spreading the mayo of truth on the sandwiches of rumor, the BBQ sauce of balance on the luscious delectable baby back ribs of invective. Mmmm ... lunchtime. .
I said on May 29 at 8:25am


"I'm glad then that you agree Reagan's absence was an anti-American slap in the face." I never said that, or implied anything similar.
--As far as what I call "proven facts," they are things I have heard on TV or radio, and I research multiple, independent sources (noy blogs unless they reference/prove their specific sources) to get the true facts.
"For example, "our forefathers NEVER intended". And you know their intent how? You have to admit this line of argument is purely subjective. Your opinion is not "proven fact"."
--My "opinion" is based on what they wrote in the constitution.
"Apologies? Really? Have you seen the text of those statements? Pretty frikken bland. Never once said "I'm sorry"."
--So then, what you're saying is if he doesn't specifically use the words "I'm sorry" or "I apologize" then it's not an apology? Either you're totally (still) drunk on the Obama kool-aid, or you need to do more research. Here, let me help you:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=obama+apologizes&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql&oq&gs_rfai
""he has done everything he can..." Opinion again. You really think his plan is to un-great America? Really-really?"
--You're right. I'm sure he hasn't done EVERYTHING he can, but you have to admit.... we already knew how liberal he was before he stole the election. We already knew how radical his agenda was (based on his own words and actions--and no, I know he didn't specifically use those words, but his actions prove it.) And since he has come into office, he has done things that are more far left than any other president in history. Especially when it comes to his outrageous, uncontrolled spending of money we don't have!
""He lied ... He's lied ever since... He misconstrues ..." Ummm ... he's a politician. This shocks and surprises you? Like all politicians (left, right, center, then, now and future), his job is to sell himself and his policies in the best possible light. This is the direct result of democracy. Take it or leave it. But don't hyperventilate over it."
--Actually, no, it doesn't suprise me at all. What DOES surprise me, however, is how many people (such as yourself it seems) believe the lies. Perfect example.... One of his biggest supporters, Whoopi Goldberg, actually called him out on one of them. When he ran for Senate, he ran his platform on how he would never raise taxes. However, once he became senator, he voted to raise them every chance he got. Don't believe me? Go research that one.
"I get so sick and tired". Only because you disagree.
--Yep, you're absolutely right. I disagree with damn near everything he says or does. But I will say this. I do agree with him (as do most Americans) that certain things should be different. I wouldn't go as far as saying "out of control" as he does, but sure, things should change. HOWEVER--it is NOT the government's responsibility (or duty) to control such things. Example--telling banks how to do their job. Telling insurance companies how to do their job. Telling ANY business how to do their job--or how to pay (or how NOT to pay) their employees. I believe (yes, my opinion) that it will all come out in the wash. When a company screws over their employees by paying their CEO's huge salaries and huge "performance bonuses" and their company is losing money hand over fist, then eventually either they will finally "get it" and change their policies, or they will go bankrupt. IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S RESPONSIBILITY TO TELL THEM HOW TO DO ANYTHING!!! I say, "let 'em fail!" Do you know why GM and Chrysler were going bankrupt/losing money? Because they were building cars that American's were choosing not to buy! So what should they have done? Listen to their potential customers. Find out what kind of cars they want, and make those cars! It's not rocket science!
""Congress that believes government should run everything". Not really, and you know it."
--Really? How do YOU know it's not true? I say actions speak louder than words....and that's exactly what their actions are telling me...at least, that's what (most of) the Democrat's actions are saying. I'm sure you already know, one of the biggest fundamental differences between a liberal (typically a Democrat, but not always) and a conservative (typically a Republican, but not always) is, liberals want more government involvement/"big government" and conservatives want LESS government involvement/"small government."
"I am one who enjoys spreading the mayo of truth on the sandwiches of rumor, the BBQ sauce of balance on the luscious delectable baby back ribs of invective. Mmmm ... lunchtime."
--Ok, so if that's the case, then I can't see you disputing anything I have shown to be a fact.
Oh -- and by the way -- here's one of the biggest lies, or one of the biggest things he has intentionally miscontrued in order to pass his borderline illegal healthcare bill.....He told Americans that without his healthcare bill passing, over 30-million Americans would not be able to get health insurance...especially those who have pre-existing conditions. This is simply not true and YOU know it. It's just like car insurance. If you've been in any at-fault accidents, or have speeding tickets, you're a bigger risk. Does this mean you can't get insurance? Absolutely not! There are several insurance companies that will insure you, but you will pay a higher price than most others because you are a bigger risk. So then, is it "fair" that you pay more for your insurance than someone that doesn't have any at-fault accidents or speeding tickets? It's absolutely fair! Your history shows that the insurance company will end up having to pay out more money for claims because of your wreckless behaviour. And the same can be said that even if you have cancer or a heart condition or high blood pressure, you can still find health insurance that will cover you--albeit at a higher premium. Just because (at least in some cases) it's not your fault that your health is what it is, meaning you can always have eaten right, exercised, not drank or smoked but yet you still have HPB or cancer or heart disease, doesn't mean that you shouldn't have to pay higher premiums. Your tests and procedures will end up costing the insurance more money...usually a lot more than you're paying into them in the first place. Is that fair? Yes. Just because HIS "opinion" isn't that it's fair, doesn't mean that he gets his way and FORCES insurance companies to not accept people because of their "pre-existing conditions."
And while I'm on the subject, here's what I and most other American's believe truly isn't right, and is bordering on illegal (which will be tested by at least 13 states.) Why should someone such as myself, who is self-employed so I don't have a job that supplies me with insurance, why should I be FORCED to buy insurance? And then if I don't, I will face fines and possible imprisonment? That's not a matter of being "fair" it's a matter of being right or wrong. The government has no right to tell me that I HAVE to buy health insurance. It's not like car insurance where you have to at least have coverage to cover the OTHER person should you be at-fault and crash into them, you still don't have to buy insurance to cover yourself...just them. So why, then, should I be forced to buy health insurance to cover me? It's my CHOICE whether or not I buy it. I have had the choice for however many number of years. I have chosen not to. Sure, it's a gamble, I could get really sick and end up hospitalized and rack up a huge bill, but you know what? THAT'S MY RESPONSIBILITY TO PAY IT!!! If the government doesn't want people to be able to dismiss their hospital bills in bankruptcy, then they shouldn't have allowed it in the first place!
Ok, I'm done for now. I'd like to hear your thoughts on all this.

A response with no response

Ok, so I have thrown down the challenge before to anyone that has different views from mine, and wants to have an intelligent, political conversation without belittling anyone or trying to hold on to one's opinion vs. real, undeniable facts. So one person on Facebook actually responded to the challenge. However, she's not responding back. Not sure why though. At first I thought maybe it was because she never got on. But I've seen her on several times now, responding to different posts or adding comments to profiles, and there's no answer to my email. So, I figured I'd go ahead and post it here since it was rather long.

Basically what happened is this. One of my friends said something on her own profile, and between her friend and me, we got into a heated discussion on her status. So I offered for her to add me and we could discuss. This is the collection of emails that have transpired....what do you think?

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(This is my original email a while after I added her and never heard anything from her as far as comments on my profile or to my "anti-Obama / anti-'big government'" status updates.)

Me:

December 8, 2009 at 3:44pm

I've been waiting to see if you have anything to say about any of my Obama status updates, or the links / notes I've posted.

And let me just say this... I'm sure you and I are probably on the same side of this in saying that neither of us would really care to get into a so-called "screaming match" over politics, but instead, to have a good, well-informed, educated debate over how things are handled.

Sound about right?

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Me:

December 17, 2009 at 3:00pm

Do you not get on much?

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Her:

December 20, 2009 at 11:40pm

Okay. I do get on here, multiple times a day. The reason I have not responded is three-fold. First off, you say you would like to have a civil discussion about how our country is operated but your posts do not reflect that feeling. "OH MY GOD CHANGE YOUR TIRES GLOBAL WARMING", etc. does not make anyone who believes differently than you feel as though you can have a reasonable, fact based conversation about the issue. You haven't even met them and you're all ready yelling. Second, I find it incredibly arrogant and egocentric to assume that you will shout your beliefs from the hilltop in such an insulting and myopic way so that others may comment. That is not a conversation; it's dictation. Thirdly, I simply do not believe in placing personal enrichment over the health and welfare of people. Conservative policy, voting, and personal behavior seem at odds with this idea. I think that is a core value that cannot be changed and you do not seem to believe that is the case. As long as you continue to be inflammatory and disrespectful to those who do not share your thoughts, there's no point in responding.

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Me:

December 21, 2009 at 1:30am

Well let me start off with your 3rd comment about putting "personal enrichment" ahead of people's health. That one statement tells me that you believe what the Democrats say when they have been trying to paint the health insurance industry with a broad brush and say that they are only in business to make money and reap huge profits and that they place their own pockets ahead of the very people that they insure. Is that correct? Because if it is, that's not a very smart way of doing business. In fact, doing so would work completely against that thought, and would force you out of business, because if you keep your clients healthy, they make you more money by staying good paying clients. However, if you drop all the sick ones, you will never get new well ones to sign up, because they would be too afraid that if, God forbid, they were to get sick they would be afraid you'd drop them. But that is exactly what's the Democratic party has said all along. They have made it sound as if you get sick that any and all insurance companies will immediately drop you...and that's just not the case. I can give you a personal example...I have had back surgery and nasal / throat surgery...I have no problem finding coverage for me. My wife AND my ex-wife have both had two C-sections and neither of them have problems finding coverage...this includes standard everyday coverage, not higher priced "high risk" coverage.

Oh...and don't forget...like ALL insurance companies, they don't make money by taking your tiny monthly payment and refusing all your claims like the Democrats want you to believe. No, they pool everyone's money together and invest it...then they make money off of their investments. That's how they can pay for your emergency open heart surgery that cost more than your house when you've only been insured with them for barely 3 months! (No, it doesn't work EXACTLY like that, but that's the basic premise.)

Now as far as my "all caps rants" I guess you could call them, yeah, that's my immediate, personal reaction. It pisses me off when Obama comes out and flat out lies, or when he makes something sound so freakin' dire with his "we have to do this right this very second or else the world will blow up" type scare tactics. He did it with the stimulus saying if "we" passed his stimulus package RIGHT NOW that unemployment would not go above 8%. And what's happened since? Its gone higher and higher every month since! Nothing positive that I have seen as far as unemployment numbers, because ever since passing that huge, expensive flop of a bill that has supposedly "saved or created" a million jobs (his words) no, wait....make that 600,000 jobs (his corrections only AFTER being caught in more lies) unemployment has done nothing but go UP. (And just for the record, I was against ALL bailouts and stimulus packages--even Bush's)

Just like the Cash-For-Clunkers flop. Are you kidding me? I am business owner and I could have told you how bad it was gonna flop! Sure, the numbers looked good on paper when for a few short months people bought cars and car dealerships were busy, but what has happened since? NOTHING! And that's the problem! It gave people who believed in him and this pathetic excuse of "hope," a false sense of that hope. Its just like if you had NO job but you had bills, and someone gave you enough money to pay your bills for lets just say one month. Ok, well that's nice and all, but what you REALLY need isn't the money, its a JOB! So, what happens that very next month when you don't have a job? All that money did was buy you a one month extension. You still don't have a job, so what's about all of THIS month's bills? Without a job, how are they gonna get paid? You see what I'm getting at? A bandaid put on a gushing wound isn't gonna do any good. You've got to stop the bleeding. Find the source. Its not gonna be found in this multi-trillion dollar healthcare bill they keep spending time on. And that brings me to my main point. Apparently Obama really doesn't care about the American people. Yes, that's my opinion but its based on the FACTS that every single poll shows his approval ratings are slipping. He has the lowest approval ratings of every other president in the history of approval ratings being polled. And why is that? Well, go to the other polls. In every other democracy, the majority is /supposed/ to rule, right? Ok then, tell me why it is, this president apparently thinks he knows what Americans want more than Americans themselves say they want. Meaning, EVERY poll that asks if they want government run healthcare ALL have the majority saying NO. and EVERY poll that asks what's more important to America right now--fixing the economy or healthcare reform? Fixing the economy wins out every single time! And finally they ask if America is heading in the right direction and overwhelmingly they all say no, we're not. I just don't get it! I really don't.

I may get pissed off with my reactions, but I am reacting to facts! I'm not against healthcare reform, but I am against the lies the Democrats tell in order to try and well their uber-expensive poisonous healthcare plan to the unknowing American people. And I am against the fact that the senators that vote on these bills (yes OR no) have NEVER read any of the pages of the bills! And I am against senators that are totally against the healthcare bill until they get bribed or bought off by $300 BILLION in extra stuff just for their state THAT MY TAXES (AND YOURS) WOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR.

Now despite some of my ALL CAPS emphasis or personal remarks about proven facts, can you honestly say you believe in this? That you believe everything the Democrats say? That you believe a government run health plan, that WILL ultimately put private insurance companies out of business (proven by the CBO and many other non-partisan groups) AND will fine and eventually imprison anyone that flat-out refuses to get put on government MANDATED health insurance? Is that really what you want for America?

Hopefully (and I mean this sincerely) you wont fins this to be "too opinionated" or anything like that and simply ignore it and not respond and / or remove me. I have tried to keep my personal expressions to a minimum and focus on the facts as you are, so far, the ONLY person that has accepted my request to discuss differences. I have had this request, or this "challenge" out to anyone who would be willing to respond since before the election. I hope we BOTH can use this as back positive learning experience.

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And as of this moment, I still don't have a response from her, and I doubt I ever will. I wrote this very last entry on December 21st, 2009. I'd say she either is being a typical liberal and refuses to either admit facts or doesn't like it when they're proven wrong.... I dunno. Regardless, I'm still waiting to hear from anyone that has a different view.